Thursday, July 16, 2009

Things do not go better with this sort of Coke

Readers enjoying my archival posts on a certain evangelist may be interested to see a post about this fellow in Brazil who has dubbed himself Pastor Coca-cola.

Aieee, as they might say in Brazil. :)

Back on the sawdust trail

[Crossposted at The Shotgun, June 22, 2009]

P>Readers who have been following my series of posts about Canadian evangelist Todd Bentley may be interested to know that he is back on the job.


This morning, despite the concerns of many Christians who looked askance at the collapse of Mr. Bentley's Florida revival and his marriage, Mr. Bentley announced the launching of his new website. It has print and video teachings, an internet store and a page where you can ask him to minister at your church. So, he's back on the job.


I may have indepth analysis of this later, once I have had time to read and listen, but I wanted Shotgun readers to be the first on the 'net to learn this which, according to Google, is apparently the case.


{I do have one passing, tongue-in-cheek observation though. The typeface for Mr. Bentley's ministry logo is apparently borrowed from the original TV series of Star Trek. Any idea in your mind that Mr. Bentley is so spiritually adept that he can "go where no man has gone before" was probably put there by accident.)  

I guess that if you die and go to heaven, that's a healing of sorts....

{Crossposted at The Shotgun, May 9, 2009]

Canadian preacher Todd Bentley will rue the day that he learns that a reporter at the U.S. magazine World has a long memory.


Mr. Bentley, whose claims to take part in spectacular healings were a feature of his revival in Lakeland, Florida last year, will no doubt be dismayed to hear that that two of the people that he claimed at the time to have helped have since died of the grave illnesses that were "healed" at his meetings.






The faith-healing evangelist has had problems with documenting his healings for many years now. When I first wrote on Mr. Bentley for the Report magazine(s) back in 2001, I asked for some proof that he had been able to help heal people through his prayers. All that Fresh Fire Ministries was able to send me were a couple of vague notes. One was from a doctor that noted that his patient "felt better", but nothing indicating that there was anything that would be visible to a third party.


Last year at Lakeland, there were indications that Mr. Bentley was stretching things a bit. Robert Ricciardelli, another charismatic minister, urged Bentley to stop saying that people were being raised from the dead, when they were unable to substantiate any of them. (He repeated his concern on a Seattle christian radio program as the revival was continuing.)


Mr. Bentley's inclination to run with accounts that would help hype the revival once blew up in his face. One enterprising YouTube user, suspecting that Mr. Bentley would say anything from the pulpit to hype his revival without checking out the truth of his statements first, decided to conduct an amusing test that Mr. Bentley fell for, being reeled in like a fish. It’s still on YouTube in two parts. Part one is here. Part two is here. 


Those who watched the ABC News program Nightline on July 9 of last year will recall reporter Jeffrey Kofman trying to pin down Mr. Bentley on the amount of people that he had helped to heal. The exchange starts at 3:33 of the video portion saved here where Mr. Kofman asked for proof that would be conclusive for a third party that the revival had healed someone. Mr. Bentley talked about "thousands" of healings while Mr. Kofman observed "We just want three." ABC News, however, was disappointed, as their staff was unable to substantiate any of the accounts of healing that Mr. Bentley provided.


Which leads me to the latest story in World, which hits newsstands in the U.S. as I write. (Warning to my readers--I'm told that apparently you can only get the full version of the online story the first time that you access it. Blogger P.J. Miller at Sola Dei Gloria, however, has copied most of the relevant details in a blog post here.)


World reporter Warren Cole Smith wrote a critical story on Mr. Bentley last year and recently decided to follow up on a list of 13 people that Mr. Bentley's ministry provided, at the time, of people who had been healed at Lakeland.


Christopher Fogle, of Cedar Rapids, Iowa, was suffering from cancer when he was at Lakeland. Mr. Smith adds:



Fogle was No. 12 on the list, along with this note: “Healed through the Outpouring and is back to fishing.”


That was on Aug. 8, 2008. There was just one problem. Two weeks earlier, on July 22, Christopher A. Fogle—according to his obituary in the Keokuk (Iowa) Daily Gate City, “left this life . . . after a courageous battle with cancer.”


Mr. Smith carries on with his adept reporting spadework:


When I called Phyllis Mills, of Trinity, N.C., on April 22 [2009], to hear the testimony of her healing, a polite family member said, “Phyllis passed away a few days ago. In fact, we’re on our way to her funeral now.”


Mills, 66 at the time of her death, had lung cancer and was undergoing aggressive treatments when she was, according to the list, “healed at the revival.” Mills “was taking radiation, but was sent home,” according to notes on Bentley’s list, with “no trace of cancer in her body.”


Mr. Smith writes that some of the people on Mr. Bentley's list that he spoke to do feel better. However, they tend to either have no medical proof of the healing, or their recovery may be due to other reasons than their Lakeland visit.


Praying for someone to be healed, I would say, is one of the kindest things that a Christian would do, so I want to encourage it. Even if it only shows caring and offers emotional comfort to the patient, prayer is worth doing. However, we do need to recognize that prayer for the sick should be done with honesty and integrity, recognizing that sometimes people may not be healed. Christians should exhibit Christlike behaviour and character when trying to be kind to the ill.


Playing fast and loose with the facts is not a sign of integrity. Mr. Bentley needs to be honest, even brutally so, if he hopes to truly help the sick through what he does. If he is not honest, the resulting fruit of Mr. Bentley's ministry will definitely be wormy.

The Art of the non-apologetic apology

(Crossposted at The Shotgun, April 18, 2009)

It's probably only a matter of days before Todd Bentley returns to working as an evangelist, according to a video update released by his friend and mentor Rick Joyner on the latter's website today. In "Todd and Ministry", Mr. Joyner says that he is powerless to stop God from overriding the restoration process which was allegedly necessary to bring the Canadian preacher back to work. And gee whiz if he doesn't see evidence that this may be happening.


One nagging question that readers may have is why are Mr. Bentley's critics still assailing him, when he says that he is sorry? Well, I can make an educated guess. Although I am not in this camp, I do think that it is in the public's interest to bring blatant lying to their attention.


I suspect that those watching the videos below the fold of this post might suspect that Mr. Bentley and Mr. Joyner are either trying to pull a fast one or are really dumb. They will know, however, the the pair are at least insulting towards a group of friends that tried to help Mr. Bentley when his revival in Lakeland, Florida was in trouble last summer.  






Mr. Bentley's series of revival meetings, shown worldwide by satellite and Internet TV, suffered a body blow after a crew from the ABC-TV news program Nightline visited the revival and found that the meetings seemed to be having no impact on the surrounding communiuty. Moreover, Mr. Bentley was unable to provide "just one" example of someone who could prove with medical testimony that they had been healed. The evangelist immediately decided to take the following day off, probably to strategize.


 On July 24, 2008, several charismatic evangelist friends of Bentley's came to Lakeland to "commission" him. Most of the evangelists belong to a group called Revival Alliance led by C. Peter Wagner, an informal but de facto denomination. The intent, Mr. Wagner explained, was to give some leadership and oversight to the Lakeland meetings. (And thereby, it was left unsaid, to attempt to quiet criticism of Mr. Bentley and reassure Christians who might be fearing that Mr. Bentley was going off the deep end.) Mr. Joyner was also there, participating.


It did not work. Attendance dwindled and Mr. Bentley struck his tents a few weeks later when it came out that his marriage was falling apart (due, it was later revealed, to "adultery" with an intern whom he has now married).


Fast forward to quite recently. On April 3, Mr. Bentley and Mr. Joyner issue a video entitled "Apology to the Revival Alliance and the Church." Amazingly, if you carefully parse what is said, it's an apology that winds up being extremely non-apologetic.


Here is the Bentley-Joyner "apology":







"....There's a big misunderstanding [about] what was going on," Mr. Joyner begins, referring to the special July 24 service.


Mr. Bentley then goes on to try to argue that he was still trying to reconcile with his first wife when the Revival Alliance came to Lakeland, so therefore they weren't blessing anything untoward. Shortly after the 5:18 mark of the video, he says, "Shonnah and I were hoping and working at that things were gonna work even when that ordination took place..." He makes a further reference to "ordination" a few seconds later.


Mr. Bentley, however, goes on to say that the Revival Alliance members were, in his opinion, coming to give God a pat on the back for doing good things, and to give him a "buffer" against attacks on the meetings. At the 7;13 mark of the video, he adds, "I saw it as a simple--not that they were responsible, not that I was coming under any government or organization, as if there was a political structure now, but I saw it simply that there was a bunch of guys that loved revival were all getting together to say 'Yay, God'..."


Okay, Mr. Bentley, after apologizing to the Revival Alliance members, is going on to say that there was nothing significant or formal in what was taking place. Unfortunately for him, the Revival Alliance ordinaton has been saved to YouTube in four parts and we can check what the truth of what he now says. (Did Mr. Bentley check the record first to see if what he was about to say was the truth? As you'll see below, that is doubtful.)


The four parts of the "Lakeland commissioning video" are at this YouTube playlist address:


http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=221A1C6B40B55DA0


Mr. Bentley's problem is as this was an ordination, this necessarily involves entering a formal arrangement with his friends in the Revival Alliance.


Some examples in the above videos explain what I mean.


C. Peter Wagner, at the 45 second mark of the Part 1 video explains "This is a ceremony celebrating the formal apostolic alignment with Todd Bentley..." In Mr. Wagner's theology, an evangelist such as Mr. Bentley needs to come under the authority of someone to do his work in good order. Mr. Wagner after rattling off his credentials and authority, cites Ephesians 4:11-12 and argues that the phrase translating "aligning" should be understood in the sense of a Greek word meaning when a doctor sets a broken bone. At the 1:58 mark of Part 1, he adds, "This is the responsibility of apostles, such as those you see here on the platform and that is the reason we are present here tonight."


As Mr. Bentley stands on ths stage listening to this, he should understand that a patient who refuses to let a doctor set his broken bone and wrap it in a cast is in dire straights indeed. Therefore, following Mr. Wagner's logic, the Revival Alliance "apostles" are asking Mr. Bentley, as a condition of their coming to support him, to listen and heed when they perceive "broken bones" in the body of his revival. If they spot something wrong, Mr. Bentley must heed and change.


Three members of the Revival Alliance, evangelists Che Ahn, Bill Johnson and John Arnott, all friends of Todd Bentley, are called forward to establish a direct working relationship with Todd Bentley. At the 4:48 mark of the Part 1 video, Todd Bentley, nodding frantically "Yes" in response, is formally asked by Mr. Wagner, "Do you recognize the apostolic authority of these three men in your life and ministry and do you desire to establish an apostolic alignment with them, with Revival Alliance?" Noting Mr. Bentley's nodds, Mr. Wagner then starts to formally commission Todd and offer him the "right hand of fellowship" between Revival Alliance and the evangelist.


The formality continues. At the 9:30 mark of the Part 1 video, Che Ahn anoints Todd Bentley with "special oil".


Over Parts 2 and 3, several ministers pray blessings over Todd Bentley. Rick Joyner makes his presence felt at the end of Part 2, prophesying "increase" and "longevity" for Mr. Bentley's work.


At the beginning of Part 4, Che Ahn gives Todd Bentley a special ring, saying "...we not only seal this commission with this ring..." As the formal part of the ceremony ends, it leads Mr. Bentley to muse on the benefits of partnership. Starting at 3:08 of the Part 4 video, Mr. Bentley muses "Sometimes in the church we get so wounded that there's no room for trust, for friends, for working together with friends. You end up just [saying] 'I'm gonna do it myself...'"


The "tale of the tape" is clear. The Revival Alliance members were making a formal relationship with Todd. And now, after nodding happily at the time and grabbing for their help, Mr. Bentley is saying it never happened. Didn't he realize at the time that with the oaths, anointing and presentation of the ring that something formal was happening? Of course. If he didn't want this to happen, why didn't he make clear to Mr. Wagner that he refused a formal relationship with his group? Why didn't he stop the ceremony as it was happening? Why didn't he formally break the agreement from the pulpit in the days he had left at Lakeland?


This explains why the video "apology" is anything but. Obviously, the formal ceremony parts of the service were important and significant to the Revival Alliance members, but now Mr. Bentley is dismissing their thoughts and feelings (and indeed truthfully the fact that there were taking a risk to their own reputations by standing with him) with a wave of his hand. Is it Christ-like to apologize to someone and then to add "Oh and by the way, something that meant a lot to you has always meant nothing to me"? I'd think that Mr. Wagner would rather forego any "apology" and instead prefer that Mr. Bentley treats his friendship with the Revival Alliance members with respect.


This is troubling. Mr. Bentley's flawed work and ministry has been attributed to burnout and marital problems with his wife. Entering the restoration process, as we have been told over and over again in the many videos released by Mr. Joyner, means that Mr. Bentley should now exhibit good character. Is he burned out now? No. Is he experiencing strife with his wife, now? No, he has a new one. Then what does it mean if he is trying to lie now?


Mr. Joyner is at fault too. Even if Mr. Bentley didn't realize what was formally taking place, Mr. Joyner should have. The fact that Mr. Joyner decided to let Todd Bentley misrepresent what happened with his approval, using his ministry's resources, is dismaying.


What could be really going on? Here's a guess.


After Mr. Bentley left the revival meetings, Mr. Wagner tried, in the capacity of being the head of the Revival Alliance--the group that had aligned with Todd--to offer some public commentary that would offer his ideas on what went wrong and what should happen in the future. (Here's one of his statements.) Mr. Wagner released some details of Mr. Bentley's sins and mistakes and seems to want to give the impression that he would be firm with the lapsed evangelist.


Mr. Joyner, on the contrary, has been very gracious towards Mr. Bentley. His "restoration videos" given lots of evidence of this.


What may be happening is that Mr. Joyner and Mr. Bentley are, politely but firmly, telling Mr. Wagner by way of the video "apology" that he is to have no real role in discipling Mr. Bentley, or deciding how firm to be with him. Mr. Bentley used his video to try and pretend that Mr. Wagner has never had a reason to think that he should have a role. But, as you have seen, there is convincing evidence to the contrary.


It's a turf war. Think of Mr. Joyner and Mr. Wagner as the "Jets" and the "Sharks" with Todd Bentley cast as Maria. ("I feel BAM! Oh, so BAM!")


By the way, whatever made Mr. Joyner think that he was in a position of authority to be a formal mentor to Mr. Bentley?  Stephen Strader, friend of Mr. Bentley and pastor of Ingited Church in Lakeland, Florida--home church of the "revival", might provide a telling clue.


Mr.Strader contributes to a public e-mail list, Apostles Today [Discussion] on charismatic Christian issues. On March 18, replying to a writer who was concerned that Shonnah Bentley, Todd's first wife, was being ignored in the process, he began by reccomending that the other writer watch "the videos done by Rick [Joyner] and Todd."


He continued: "Rick is not (nor any of us) welcoming Todd nor ignoring Shonnah. First, the whole process of the Apostolic Alignment was to bring Todd into proper accountability. Rick was assigned by the Revival Alliance to bring correction & restoration to Todd."


Hmm. If true, Mr. Joyner took the responsibility from the Revival Alliance and then, Todd Bentley in hand, told them to beat it.


One last note. In 2003, Todd Bentley wrote in his self-published autobiography Journey Into the Miraculous, that he was an ordained minister. It reads almost exactly the same in the current mass-market version printed last year, so I will quote the latter printing:


I thank God for my friendship with Patricia [King], and for how God used her as an instrument to ordain me into the ministry--but I always will know that the call came from God. I've since been ordained in Canada by my local church, and through the Christian Minister's Association. In the U.S., I'm recognized as a minister of the Gospel through World Ministry Fellowship in Texas. [Todd Bentley, Journey Into The Miraculous, Destiny Image Publishers, January 2008, p. 162]


Bud Press, the irrepressible boffin of the Christian Research Service, has done some  looking into this and learned something surprising. Which you may read in full at:


http://www.christianresearchservice.com/ToddBentley12.htm


It seems that the Christian Minister's Association says that they have never ordained Mr. Bentley. World Ministry Fellowship, following what happened in Lakeland, has "moved in quickly and taken action" pulling his U.S. credentials.


I guess that Mr. Bentley now desperately needs the kind of formal ordination service that he now says never happened at Lakeland. I would advise Mr. Wagner to stay by his phone, just in case.



A divorce from reality?

{Crossposted at The Shotgun, April 4, 2009]

The latest videos from the friends of shamed Canadian evangelist Todd Bentley show that his divorce and instantaneous remarriage is central to their thinking as they seek to "restore" him to ministry. Evidently, they hope that he will be the first of thousands, if not millions, to be restored in this way.


Mr. Bentley, they are determined, will be making a comeback....and if his friends have to change the beliefs of millions of Christians about marriage and divorce to do so, that is merely incidental.





One feature of the developing restoration campaign may be doing the evangelist himself a disservice. Another feature of the campaign may do a disservice to the Christian church as a whole, particularly the charismatic Christian subculture that Mr. Bentley and his friends are in a position to most influence.


You may recall that Mr. Bentley separated from his first wife Shonnah immediately after the collapse of his internationally famous revival in Lakeland, Florida, last summer. The separation was attributed to an "affair" that he had been conducting with Jessa Hasbrook, whom he married shortly after his divorce was finalized with his first wife.


Although there are several reasons to view Mr. Bentley and the fruit of his revival with dismay, it appears that Mr. Bentley's friends--led by his mentor, U.S. charismatic evangelist Rick Joyner--see his instant trophy wife as the biggest obstacle to his being restored, as their series of videos thus far have concentrated on Mr. Bentley's divorce and the resulting fallout.


Mr. Bentley is to be definitely restored to the ministry, no ifs ands or buts, Mr. Joyner explains in a video  released a few days ago, or Mr. Joyner has failed in his task:




At the 1:20 mark of the above video, Mr. Joyner, citing Galatians 6:1, argues that when the verse "...talks about being restored....it really does mean to restore them, to put them back where they were. That has to happen." This restoration, moreover, can be as short, or as long as necessary.


In Mr. Bentley's defense, this sort of thinking may harm him. Things are being structured to not allow him the chance to do a deep soul searching, rethinking everything including his work, his theology and what God might have called him to.


For example, his tapes and CDs are being sold by Mr. Joyner's ministry. So, his mentor is saying that there is nothing wrong with his way of looking at the Bible. This discourages Mr. Bentley from studying the Bible, learning in-depth theology, and praying about whether the fruit of what he teaches is good--let alone considering the views of those who fear that he has lapsed into heresy, and whether they might have some valid points to consider.


Mr. Bentley has had what some of his friends consider two extramarital affairs. They are being blamed, at length, on "burnout", in statements issued by Mr. Joyner. Mr. Joyner, moreover, notes that Mr. Bentley's first wife Shonnah wanted to keep him grounded, more often at home with her and the kids. Perhaps Mr. Bentley is not suited to have a high pressure, international ministry and should be a pastor or a lay worker who should only do evangelistic work in addition to his day job. I don't know, but in the best interest of Mr. Bentley, he should be free to consider options like these. [I can argue that his first wife seems to have been a check and balance that could have kept him better grounded, and not burned out. His new wife, Jessa, will have less ability and authority to tell him to slow down, being younger and less mature in the faith.]


Everything, however, is being set up for him to be an evangelist again. He already has a new ministry office, Fresh Fire USA, based at Mr. Joyner's ministry. It seems, from the subtext of what Mr. Joyner and his friends are saying, that they would have a hard time explaining that Todd Bentley was restored if God didn't "put him back where he was". Todd Bentley could be very happy and content operating a skid road soup kitchen, but with a theological build-up on the need to "restore" Mr. Bentley, anything less than full-time evangelism would be seen as something continuing to be "wrong". And that's not fair to Mr. Bentley.


An example of true soul-searchhing comes to mind, one that should come to Mr. Joyner's mind as the evangelist recently, in great humility, reminded the entire Internet that he had helped Jim Bakker get back on his feet after he was released from prison. Jim Bakker, as his book I was Wrong shows, had a crisis of conscience while in prison. He came to believe that the "prosperity gospel", a feature of his PTL ministry theology, was quite wrong, and in the years since leaving prison has developed a different mindset about Christianity and how it should best relate to the world.


It would be a good sign if Mr. Bentley would be open to putting everything on the table. But, there seem to be overt and subtle pressures to leave doors and drawers locked in the spiritual house of his ministry, so that he cannot re-examine everything, as God may wish him too. Of course, Mr. Bentley's critics would suggest that his theology and ministry are so aberrant that he should blow up everything and start over. But that can't happen if restoration must, of necessity, mean that Mr. Bentley goes back to preaching the same things in the same way.


A last point about "restoration". Mandatory restoration to doing the same thing in perhaps the same way opens up questions of prudence, discernment and common sense. Mr. Bentley may have been removed by circumstances precisely because, in the great scheme of things, it is very unwise to have him doing this sort of work. Had Christian leadership thought things through, it may have been wisest to leave him working in that Fraser Valley sawmill, for various reasons. That can't happen now.


As sad as this reluctance to allow true self-searching to take place is for Mr. Bentley, what is sadder is his friends' attitude to the ease of fixing divorce.


After decades of ministry, Mr. Joyner and his friend, California minister Bill Johnson, have perhaps discovered only recently that divorce is endemic in the Christian church. And, lo and behold, the process that will "restore" Todd Bentley will restore millions of Christians too.


In the very first video made by Mr. Joyner, he notes that more than half of U.S. church members have suffered from a divorce. He defines it, however, as having "been through something similar to what you've (looking at Todd Bentley) gone through." Not so. If accounts are correct, Mr. Bentley precipitated an affair and got married as soon as possible, an explosive end to a marriage which is not the norm in most divorces.


Divorce, though serious and sad, is not the end of the world. Shortly after the 8:58 mark of this video, below, Mr. Joyner remarks that "God is divorced". But, happily, He is going to "re-marry Israel", so all will be well in the end, one assumes:





More odd thinking is prominent in a recent video, which was saved to YouTube in two parts. I'm citing the second of the two parts. Mr. Joyner is on the right, Mr. Johnson the middle and Mr. Bentley the left:





"We've got people hiding in the thousands," Mr. Johnson says, contuing (at 1:32 into this video) to add that "he (i.e. Todd Bentley) is going to raise a flag of hope for these people."

This leads Mr. Joyner to chime in a few seconds later with the note that allegedly many divorced people have been contacting his ministry to say that the Bentley restoration process "gives them hope."

Mr. Bentley's example, adds Mr. Johnson "is going to prophesy to those without hope, to those without jope, to those who have given up, to those who are outside the church for any reason".

This leads Mr. Joyner to add, "We have a terrible scourge of divorce. It is tragic, but if you've been though it, it isn't the end. God hasn't given up on you and we haven't given up on you, even if it was your fault."

The two ministers decry all the giftings that are going to waste because excessively conservative Christians are not allowing divorced people to step up and do Christian work. They express hope that Todd Bentley can be an example of the restored diroced and remarried person being an example to the church, and Mr. Bentley chips in with "I want to be that message."

Two points.

It is self-serving for Mr. Bentley's friends to appeal to the thousands of divorced Christians in their audience, hoping that he will get some residual sympathy from those who think that they have been treated unfairly after their divorce. Mr. Bentley's divorce and remarriage is different in scale and public impact that the divorces suffered by most Christians. His divorce and remarriage is arguably worse because as a minister with a very public ministry he had a thousand times more reason to want to avoid a divorce and remarriage. The Bible holds ministers to a higher standard than lay people as well.

As one gets "restored" from one's divorce, one shouldn't be surprised to see Mr. Bentley in front of you in line, with a shy grin on his face. His work is arguably so important that he has to butt in line, and who are you to say that the grace extended to you shouldn't be extended to him?

I do realize that Christians have very differnt views on divorce, but what troubles me is that historically charismatics have been very conservative on the issues of divorce and remarriage. (I'd respecfully argue that reading the Bible to mean what it says would seem to imply that men and women should only marry once in their lives.)

What disturbs me about how Mr. Bentley and his friends are approaching this is that it isn't being addressed Biblically so far. Theological liberals, who have, well, liberal views on these questions are at least trying to parse the Greek, look at history and such. There's none of that so far in the videos, and if Mr. Joyner, Mr. Bentley and friends really want their audience to rethink their views on these questions, they need to start here. (Start and end here, my theologically conservative friends would say, as they probably would be hard pressed to do that without reading into the text and dismissing things that are there.)

It's chilling to see these issues being addressed on grounds of utility. People are not in the church! Their gifts aren't being used! Their offerings aren't being taken--er, strike that. Perhaps I'm too much of a conservative, but I would like to see some solid theological arguments.  I hope that Christians hearing Mr. Bentley's appeal would demand them. 

One last note. If what is being reported on his behalf is true, Mr. Bentley's affair caused him to act quite peculiarly. See if you agree.


Mr. Joyner, issuing a follow-up statement on what has been happening to Mr. Bentley, discusses his affair with Jessa. A few days ago, Mr. Joyner wrote:


....After Todd hit the wall with burnout, he then fell to an emotional attachment to a staff member. There was no physical relationship, and the girl did not return even the emotional attraction. When Todd went to his leadership team about what he was feeling, they immediately sent the girl away. Todd, trying to be open, then went to his wife to confess this attraction. Todd was trying to be transparent, but he is convinced that this was what killed what was left of his relationship to his wife.

       Todd often called this attraction “an affair,” but it was not one. There was no physical adultery or even physical contact with the girl. However, Todd said that he knows he would have entered into such a relationship if she had been willing, and therefore, he felt that he needed to repent of it as if it had been an affair. I can appreciate Todd feeling this way. Because of the way rumors spread and grow, many still think that Todd had an actual affair several years ago, when in fact he did not.


Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that this is true for a moment. Wouldn't the ultimate defense for this be Todd and Jessa themselves issuing a statement to this effect in print and in video. Or were things seen and overheard that would lead to the pair being openly rebuked for what they said?


One assumes that Todd Bentley would have said these things privately to people before Mr. Joyner sent his trail balloon to fly. Where are the retractions and apologies from Robert Ricciradelli, C. Peter Wagner and Stephen Strader, often cited as the most reliable sources that something like an affair (at least) was going on? One would think that even one apology would be trumpeted by Mr. Bentley, but there is silence so far.


The governing board of Todd's old Fresh Fire Ministries defined Todd Bentley's actions as "adultery" in an open e-mail last fall. Are they so conservative that they would define something harmless, conducted in the brain according to Mr. Bentley, as adultery. One assumes that Shonnah Bentley would know the most details. As her reformed ministry is under the guidance of Califormia pastor Bill Johnson (a friend of Mr. Bentley's, as noted above), the first Mrs. Bentley may well be under an-offer-she-can't-refuse kinds of pressure to smooth over her ex-husband's affairs. But she has let her statement, as part of the board, be.


Mr. Bentley's critics will argue that Mr. Bentley may be testing how credulous his audience is. If so, he may have some success, as I have read commentary from people who wouldn't believe that something was amiss unless Todd and Jessa had (speaking purely hypothetically out of respect to the two in case they were good) gone to Tampa Bay and consummated an affair on the 50 yard line during Bruce Springsteen's performance at the last Super Bowl.


Sorry but I am more sceptical. Puzzled too. If Mr. Joyner's account is correct, we have a Mr. Bentley who is very conservative on sexual questions that can lead to an affair, then a divorce. Following Christ's admonition that looking at a woman with lust is essentially the same as adultery, he even polices his thoughts. Not necessarily thoughts that are a problem, thoughts that could lead to thoughts that are a problem.


Then, following his separation, Mr. Bentley goes from being very conservative on these questions to quite liberal. A church leader should be the husband "of one wife"? Shrug. Christ notes that the Isralaelites were allowed to divorce as a concession to their sinful frailties? Yawn. Off to the Nevada marrying parlour!


This is not the same person before and after. We have no evidence that Todd Bentley came to an epiphany in his understanding of these manners which, if he had rethought matters so profoundly, should have been amongst the first things he has said. Unless, Mr. Bentley is considering his very conservative audience and trying to put the most positive spin on matters that is possible, sadly even if at variance with the facts.


If Todd and Jessa Bentley were innocent friends, I'd like to hear and see them say it. Their reputations are at stake and I myself would be indignant and wanting to clear my name if falsely accused.


One wonders if they would be that brave. Sadly, one must wonder if the appropriate word, instead, would be "brazen."


Mr. Friel hits the nail on Mr. Bentley's head

{crossposted at The Shotgun, March 28, 2009]

Todd Bentley, shamed Candian evangelist, seems to have friends who want him to return to ministry as soon as possible. His mentor, U.S. charismatic evangelist Rick Joyner, is putting several videos on his site per week about Mr. Bentley's "restoration process", not just the one video per week that was promised.


Todd Friel, an American apologetics expert with a weekly radio and TV show, analyzed parts of the videos this week on his radio program. If you are interested in his critique, I think he makes some very good points. His audio comments are below the fold of this post.





http://www.youtube.com/v/gj0mdt2fk2A&hl=en&fs=1

[For my part, I am puttering on several posts that may move the story forward. I think I am detecting the underlying logic of the argument that Mr. Bentley and his friends are advancing, and it's not good. But more later, as needed...]

Mr. Bentley enters his rehab

[Crossposted at The Shotgun, March 14, 2009]

At last, new trophy wife in tow, Todd Bentley, the Canadian evangelist who has been having many problems over the past year (to put it lightly) has entered rehabilitation. Over seven months after the collapse of his internationally famous revival in the U.S., he has at last gotten around to going to North Carolina to come under the mentoring of charismatic leader Rick Joyner. Mr. Joyner is to help him return to ministry. Yet, already, in the annoucements and videos that are coming out with Mr. Bentley, there's more backspin than at a convention of billiards players evident, which is not a good omen for those hoping that Mr. Bentley can return to his work with integrity and a good character.    






As videos began to be released a couple of days ago, there was a flurry of commentary and a bit of news coverage. Blogger Miriam Franklin has already weighed in with several pointed critical posts on Mr. Joyner and Mr. Bentley. I'd defintely agree with her on one point she has made, namely that people are concentrating too much on Mr. Bentley's divorce and quickie remarriage to Jessa, whose affair with the evangelist seems to be the proxinate cause of the "Lakeland revival". Not so. The affair was a symptom not a cause. That is to say, Mr. Bentley had a character problem that exhibited itself in lying from the pulpit about, for example, raising people from the dead. There were some aberrant, heretical things being said and done at Lakeland. And he was canoodling with a younger, prettier intern while his wife was either watching the kids or taking the pulpit herself to promote what her husband was doing. Marrying Jessa will likely not fix what leads to these sorts of actions.


My blogging friend Bene Diction makes an excellent point in a post that notes that many prominent charismatic groups and churches are slumping in the amount of people that are logging on to their sites. This relates to several things that I have been seeing on The Elijah List, an e-list that caters to charismatics, to the effect that people with alleged prophetic insight are commenting that God will bring Christians through the current economic woes, or bless them in amazing ways financially. There are reports of layoffs at ministries, and the tone of requests for donations has been stepped up. All this backs up Bene Diction's suspicion that there may be a lot of pressure to get Bentley out on the road prematurely so, as the "star" of the "Lakeland revival", he can start to draw the crowds again.


Mr. Joyner's first letter, announcing that Bentley and new wife had arrived, also noted that Mr. Bentley has a new ministry, Fresh Fire USA, which is organized under Mr. Joyner's own ministry for now. Those wanting to help Mr. Bentley were offered Fresh Fire USA's address. So, I had to smile when religion editor Frank Lockwood of the Arkansas Democrat, on his religious news blog, titled his note on Mr. Bentley's restoration process: "Sorry about the adultery. Please send $$$" . 


Charisma, the magazine of record for charismatic Christians in the U.S., is covering this too. Their own story has an intestesting note. At the tail end of Bentley's time in Florida, a team of charismatic leaders and ministers lead by C. Peter Wagner held a special commissioning service for Bentley which was broadcast worldwide via Internet, in which the "Revival Alliance" members predicted that Bentley would go from success to success. They welcomed Bentley as a member of their group and even gave him a special ring, but Charisma's story quotes Revival Alliance member John Arnott (known for pastoring the "Toronto Blessing" in the 1990s) as saying that Bentley is no longer considered a "member in good standing" of their group. Mr. Wagner and Mr. Arnott revealed some of Bentley's misdeeds in the aftermath of his leaving the revival, so Mr. Bentley has evidently decided to form alliances with those who are more sympathtic to him, such as Mr. Joyner.


Mr. Joyner features in another Charisma item as well. Charisma editor J. Lee Grady, in his latest column,  is disgusted with the rush to bring Bentley back too quickly, calling it a "travesty". Mr. Grady is righteously indignant, but what I find telling is Mr. Joyner's response. He writes, in part:


Lee, I love some of the things you write, but I also feel that some are straight from the mouth of the accuser.


I'll need to translate this for non-Christians. Mr. Joyner is referring to Revelation 12:10 which mentions that Satan is the "accuser of the brethren" (i.e. christians). So, what Mr. Joyner is saying here is that Mr. Grady, editor of a charismatic Christian magazine, is channeling Satan, basically.


It should go without saying that if you are a professing Christian, one of the worst possible insults that you could use would be to say that your opponent is being used by the devil as a ventriliquist dummy.


One would think that "fighting dirty" would be abhorrent for a Christian such as Mr. Joyner.


Mr. Joyner, as the conservative site  Apologetics Index notes has a history of doing other things that would raise the eyebrows of many Christians. He has a reputation of being "prophetic" and having special insight from the Lord, but non-Christian sceptics would no doubt be amused that he occasionally sees through a glass very darkly, such as his prediction of Los Angeles being levelled by an earthquake and nuclear bombs in the 1990s.


Mr. Joyner's occasiional intemperance, as exhibited in his response to Mr. Grady, may also be shown in one of his famous prohetic words, in his book The Final Quest, about the "Blues and the Grays". He predicts a coming civil war in Christianity, with the winning side (of which Mr. Joyner is a part, of course) defeats the Christians who have been misled by Satan being defeated and removed from their positions of authority in the church.  We must "remove the cancer from our midst" he writes in his book. (I wonder, given the violence waged between Christians in history, and in our own time, whether it is appropriate to share these sorts of visions in public. Certainly, Christians should "contend for the faith", but so sadly, they do not need encouragment to turn to violence in the direst of circumstances.)


I note these things and note that Mr. Bentley, when not kneeing cancer victims in the stomach, has often delighted in telling his audiences about times that he has kicked old ladies in the head with his biker boot and such. (As I write, some of these stories are preserved on YouTube.) Amongst the fruits of the Holy Spirit that should be exhibited by an evangelist such as Mr. Bentley are meekness, gentleness and self-control. I have to ask whether Mr. Bentley's mentor, Mr. Joyner, would be effective in advising him here when Mr. Joyner himself--this week--accuses his opponents of speaking on Satan's behalf, and cherishes visions of winning a "war in the church". Yes, often the flawed have to help the flawed, but this is not promising. 


On to the videos that have been released to explain Mr. Bentley's rehabilitation process. The first video from Mr. Joyner's ministry has Mr. Bentley himself as a guest. I'm posting a copy of most of the first video that has been saved on YouTube in case the videos start to disappear from Mr. Joyner's own website:



www.youtube.com/v/hCMDrAUvaPU&hl=en&fs=1


Some things that jump out at me:


1. You'll notice that Mr. Bentley is full of talk of mistakes and errors, but never mentions the word "sin". Even Jimmy Swaggart had the grace to cry "I have sinned," when he next appeared before the public after he sinned.


Not that people would demand a pound of flesh, of course. But talk of sin and sinning would indicate that Mr. Bentley is a lot more serious about making things right than his critics think that he is. The evangelist already has the problem that it took him over half a year to begin this supposedly important process, so he needs to be seen to be taking it seriously.


2. I don't really believe that in an age of fax, e-mail and videoconferencing that it was impossible for Mr. Bentley to be working on his visa appeal with the U.S. custonms officials while moving to North Carolina. I'm sure that it is done all the time for compassionate reasons, for example. I sincerely doubt that it would be impossible as Mr. Bentley implies.


3. As a Canadian, I am a little dismayed to hear Mr. Bentley say this:


"....Shonnah's doing everything she can to help with my immigration process...."


It would appear that Mr. Bentley is tring to become a landed immigrant or even a U.S. citizen. No points for guessing that his marriage to Jessa was designed to help with this.


If we grant for a moment that Mr. Bentley's faith, giftings and burden to convert non-Christians are valid, this is sad. Yes, Canadian christians have been moving to the U.S. to pursue their calling since Aimee Semple McPherson, but the United States already has so many ministers and so much resources. If Mr. Bentley is who he says he is, the church in Canada needs  people like him. Of course, his critics would say that Mr. Bentley should not let the door hit him on the behind as he leaves Canada. But the need is acute. If Mr. Bentley's style of faith-healing evangelism is what is needed, then it is particularly sad that he never devoted much effort to the nearest major city to where he lived, Vancouver. (The last time that he himself ministered in the city was at a medium sized church over five years ago.)


Of course, Mr. Benley's citics could question how committed Mr. Bentley was committed to "revival" in Canada's cities and towns in the  first place, based on his decision to move.


4. Mr. Bentley, 7:30 into the video, starts talking about how he dealt with problems as an unsaved teenager:


"....That old [sin] nature in you is when you hurt someone, you just want to give up and run away from the whole thing. That's how I dealt with pain as I grew up as a child. If I was hurt or rejected or I disappointed my mother or disappointed my father, I just packed up and moved to the next town. When I burned all the bridges there, I just packed up and moved. This time we want to deal with everything square in the face...."


Let's follow his logic. Mr. Bentley says that it is sinful, or at least immature, to deal with problems by running away from them. This is after he has divorced his wife and not only "packed up and moved to the next town" but moved to the next country. He has "burned all his bridges" with his ex-wife, turning in for a new model, instead of "dealing with everything square in the face" of Shonnah Bentley, his first wife.


How can you teach someone to stand and deal with their problems when they have just run away from most of them? What is preventing Todd Bentley from packing up and giving up on Mr. Joyner's restoration process when by implication, spending the past few months running from everything that is painful to deal with is quite all right?


Did Mr. Joyner even try to persuade Mr. Bentley to stay with his wife and kids and stay in Canada? 


5. An offhand remark of Mr. Bentley's at the 8:55 mark will raise some eyebrows:   


"There's so much that I've learned on all this. There's triumph. There's tragedy. And, you know, there'll be a message. Ther'll be a whole series of messages...."


Tragedy I can understand. Triumph? The only triumph that there would be is Christ somehow cleaning up the pig's breakfast that the evangelist has made, but the "restoration process" has only just started. Rather, are we seeing a "triumph of the will" specifically Todd Bentley's will? He got the wife he wanted. He got the parenting situation that worked best for him. He got a very sympathetic mentor to counsel him. He has a lot that he wants, and that might not be good for him.


Watching this video may bring a sense that Mr. Bentley is not being asked to be serious about his mistakes. This is an unease that is shared, according to Cary McMullen of the Lakeland Ledger newspaper, who has done a lot of great reporting on Mr. Bentley's revival and its aftermath. In a post on the reaction to the plans to restore Mr. Bentley in "Pentecostal circles", McMullen notes that many  seem to fear that "this is just further evidence that Bentley and his supporters are frauds".


Mr. Bentley and Mr. Joyner have their work cut out for them. If they are truly wanting to do the right thing, there is a lot of scepticism to deal with. Well-founded scepticism, I am afraid. 

Mr. Bentley enters his rehab

[Crossposted at The Shotgun, March 14, 2009]

At last, new trophy wife in tow, Todd Bentley, the Canadian evangelist who has been having many problems over the past year (to put it lightly) has entered rehabilitation. Over seven months after the collapse of his internationally famous revival in the U.S., he has at last gotten around to going to North Carolina to come under the mentoring of charismatic leader Rick Joyner. Mr. Joyner is to help him return to ministry. Yet, already, in the annoucements and videos that are coming out with Mr. Bentley, there's more backspin than at a convention of billiards players evident, which is not a good omen for those hoping that Mr. Bentley can return to his work with integrity and a good character.    






As videos began to be released a couple of days ago, there was a flurry of commentary and a bit of news coverage. Blogger Miriam Franklin has already weighed in with several pointed critical posts on Mr. Joyner and Mr. Bentley. I'd defintely agree with her on one point she has made, namely that people are concentrating too much on Mr. Bentley's divorce and quickie remarriage to Jessa, whose affair with the evangelist seems to be the proxinate cause of the "Lakeland revival". Not so. The affair was a symptom not a cause. That is to say, Mr. Bentley had a character problem that exhibited itself in lying from the pulpit about, for example, raising people from the dead. There were some aberrant, heretical things being said and done at Lakeland. And he was canoodling with a younger, prettier intern while his wife was either watching the kids or taking the pulpit herself to promote what her husband was doing. Marrying Jessa will likely not fix what leads to these sorts of actions.


My blogging friend Bene Diction makes an excellent point in a post that notes that many prominent charismatic groups and churches are slumping in the amount of people that are logging on to their sites. This relates to several things that I have been seeing on The Elijah List, an e-list that caters to charismatics, to the effect that people with alleged prophetic insight are commenting that God will bring Christians through the current economic woes, or bless them in amazing ways financially. There are reports of layoffs at ministries, and the tone of requests for donations has been stepped up. All this backs up Bene Diction's suspicion that there may be a lot of pressure to get Bentley out on the road prematurely so, as the "star" of the "Lakeland revival", he can start to draw the crowds again.


Mr. Joyner's first letter, announcing that Bentley and new wife had arrived, also noted that Mr. Bentley has a new ministry, Fresh Fire USA, which is organized under Mr. Joyner's own ministry for now. Those wanting to help Mr. Bentley were offered Fresh Fire USA's address. So, I had to smile when religion editor Frank Lockwood of the Arkansas Democrat, on his religious news blog, titled his note on Mr. Bentley's restoration process: "Sorry about the adultery. Please send $$$" . 


Charisma, the magazine of record for charismatic Christians in the U.S., is covering this too. Their own story has an intestesting note. At the tail end of Bentley's time in Florida, a team of charismatic leaders and ministers lead by C. Peter Wagner held a special commissioning service for Bentley which was broadcast worldwide via Internet, in which the "Revival Alliance" members predicted that Bentley would go from success to success. They welcomed Bentley as a member of their group and even gave him a special ring, but Charisma's story quotes Revival Alliance member John Arnott (known for pastoring the "Toronto Blessing" in the 1990s) as saying that Bentley is no longer considered a "member in good standing" of their group. Mr. Wagner and Mr. Arnott revealed some of Bentley's misdeeds in the aftermath of his leaving the revival, so Mr. Bentley has evidently decided to form alliances with those who are more sympathtic to him, such as Mr. Joyner.


Mr. Joyner features in another Charisma item as well. Charisma editor J. Lee Grady, in his latest column,  is disgusted with the rush to bring Bentley back too quickly, calling it a "travesty". Mr. Grady is righteously indignant, but what I find telling is Mr. Joyner's response. He writes, in part:


Lee, I love some of the things you write, but I also feel that some are straight from the mouth of the accuser.


I'll need to translate this for non-Christians. Mr. Joyner is referring to Revelation 12:10 which mentions that Satan is the "accuser of the brethren" (i.e. christians). So, what Mr. Joyner is saying here is that Mr. Grady, editor of a charismatic Christian magazine, is channeling Satan, basically.


It should go without saying that if you are a professing Christian, one of the worst possible insults that you could use would be to say that your opponent is being used by the devil as a ventriliquist dummy.


One would think that "fighting dirty" would be abhorrent for a Christian such as Mr. Joyner.


Mr. Joyner, as the conservative site  Apologetics Index notes has a history of doing other things that would raise the eyebrows of many Christians. He has a reputation of being "prophetic" and having special insight from the Lord, but non-Christian sceptics would no doubt be amused that he occasionally sees through a glass very darkly, such as his prediction of Los Angeles being levelled by an earthquake and nuclear bombs in the 1990s.


Mr. Joyner's occasiional intemperance, as exhibited in his response to Mr. Grady, may also be shown in one of his famous prohetic words, in his book The Final Quest, about the "Blues and the Grays". He predicts a coming civil war in Christianity, with the winning side (of which Mr. Joyner is a part, of course) defeats the Christians who have been misled by Satan being defeated and removed from their positions of authority in the church.  We must "remove the cancer from our midst" he writes in his book. (I wonder, given the violence waged between Christians in history, and in our own time, whether it is appropriate to share these sorts of visions in public. Certainly, Christians should "contend for the faith", but so sadly, they do not need encouragment to turn to violence in the direst of circumstances.)


I note these things and note that Mr. Bentley, when not kneeing cancer victims in the stomach, has often delighted in telling his audiences about times that he has kicked old ladies in the head with his biker boot and such. (As I write, some of these stories are preserved on YouTube.) Amongst the fruits of the Holy Spirit that should be exhibited by an evangelist such as Mr. Bentley are meekness, gentleness and self-control. I have to ask whether Mr. Bentley's mentor, Mr. Joyner, would be effective in advising him here when Mr. Joyner himself--this week--accuses his opponents of speaking on Satan's behalf, and cherishes visions of winning a "war in the church". Yes, often the flawed have to help the flawed, but this is not promising. 


On to the videos that have been released to explain Mr. Bentley's rehabilitation process. The first video from Mr. Joyner's ministry has Mr. Bentley himself as a guest. I'm posting a copy of most of the first video that has been saved on YouTube in case the videos start to disappear from Mr. Joyner's own website:



www.youtube.com/v/hCMDrAUvaPU&hl=en&fs=1


Some things that jump out at me:


1. You'll notice that Mr. Bentley is full of talk of mistakes and errors, but never mentions the word "sin". Even Jimmy Swaggart had the grace to cry "I have sinned," when he next appeared before the public after he sinned.


Not that people would demand a pound of flesh, of course. But talk of sin and sinning would indicate that Mr. Bentley is a lot more serious about making things right than his critics think that he is. The evangelist already has the problem that it took him over half a year to begin this supposedly important process, so he needs to be seen to be taking it seriously.


2. I don't really believe that in an age of fax, e-mail and videoconferencing that it was impossible for Mr. Bentley to be working on his visa appeal with the U.S. custonms officials while moving to North Carolina. I'm sure that it is done all the time for compassionate reasons, for example. I sincerely doubt that it would be impossible as Mr. Bentley implies.


3. As a Canadian, I am a little dismayed to hear Mr. Bentley say this:


"....Shonnah's doing everything she can to help with my immigration process...."


It would appear that Mr. Bentley is tring to become a landed immigrant or even a U.S. citizen. No points for guessing that his marriage to Jessa was designed to help with this.


If we grant for a moment that Mr. Bentley's faith, giftings and burden to convert non-Christians are valid, this is sad. Yes, Canadian christians have been moving to the U.S. to pursue their calling since Aimee Semple McPherson, but the United States already has so many ministers and so much resources. If Mr. Bentley is who he says he is, the church in Canada needs  people like him. Of course, his critics would say that Mr. Bentley should not let the door hit him on the behind as he leaves Canada. But the need is acute. If Mr. Bentley's style of faith-healing evangelism is what is needed, then it is particularly sad that he never devoted much effort to the nearest major city to where he lived, Vancouver. (The last time that he himself ministered in the city was at a medium sized church over five years ago.)


Of course, Mr. Benley's citics could question how committed Mr. Bentley was committed to "revival" in Canada's cities and towns in the  first place, based on his decision to move.


4. Mr. Bentley, 7:30 into the video, starts talking about how he dealt with problems as an unsaved teenager:


"....That old [sin] nature in you is when you hurt someone, you just want to give up and run away from the whole thing. That's how I dealt with pain as I grew up as a child. If I was hurt or rejected or I disappointed my mother or disappointed my father, I just packed up and moved to the next town. When I burned all the bridges there, I just packed up and moved. This time we want to deal with everything square in the face...."


Let's follow his logic. Mr. Bentley says that it is sinful, or at least immature, to deal with problems by running away from them. This is after he has divorced his wife and not only "packed up and moved to the next town" but moved to the next country. He has "burned all his bridges" with his ex-wife, turning in for a new model, instead of "dealing with everything square in the face" of Shonnah Bentley, his first wife.


How can you teach someone to stand and deal with their problems when they have just run away from most of them? What is preventing Todd Bentley from packing up and giving up on Mr. Joyner's restoration process when by implication, spending the past few months running from everything that is painful to deal with is quite all right?


Did Mr. Joyner even try to persuade Mr. Bentley to stay with his wife and kids and stay in Canada? 


5. An offhand remark of Mr. Bentley's at the 8:55 mark will raise some eyebrows:   


"There's so much that I've learned on all this. There's triumph. There's tragedy. And, you know, there'll be a message. Ther'll be a whole series of messages...."


Tragedy I can understand. Triumph? The only triumph that there would be is Christ somehow cleaning up the pig's breakfast that the evangelist has made, but the "restoration process" has only just started. Rather, are we seeing a "triumph of the will" specifically Todd Bentley's will? He got the wife he wanted. He got the parenting situation that worked best for him. He got a very sympathetic mentor to counsel him. He has a lot that he wants, and that might not be good for him.


Watching this video may bring a sense that Mr. Bentley is not being asked to be serious about his mistakes. This is an unease that is shared, according to Cary McMullen of the Lakeland Ledger newspaper, who has done a lot of great reporting on Mr. Bentley's revival and its aftermath. In a post on the reaction to the plans to restore Mr. Bentley in "Pentecostal circles", McMullen notes that many  seem to fear that "this is just further evidence that Bentley and his supporters are frauds".


Mr. Bentley and Mr. Joyner have their work cut out for them. If they are truly wanting to do the right thing, there is a lot of scepticism to deal with. Well-founded scepticism, I am afraid.